Blog Post

2
Pseudolonewolf
6 years ago

Weekly Update

◊ Posted by A β Pseudolonewolf
I've been working on Miasmon this week, and I'm edging closer to the finishing line, though there's still quite a bit left to do. I've not really got anything particularly interesting to say about it though.

I've also finally got around to rewriting the temperaments page, though this time I've put the information on a smaller sub-site thing rather than this main site. It can be seen here: ∞ Fig Hunter ∞

It's been rewritten from scratch to be clearer than the last page. I have years more experience than I did last time, so I hope that it can clear up some misconceptions.

I'd be interested to hear what people think, so then I might improve it to make it even clearer.
52 Comments

on 26 Roots

52 Comments

theyclatious
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Please dont hang me...
Pseudo I was only giving opinion.It will always be there so ignore it if you dont apreciate it and use it if it is usefull.Ok?
I was only sugesting reserving a sponsor so you could start geting some more revenue sooner!People dont dislike if it goes against Pseudos liking.Use your own opinion.
Lawlpie
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Lawlpie 20 United States MelancholicSanguine INTP 2C
Users are giving your posts bad ratings because you do not use proper spelling and punctuation. On some websites, you are expected to type as if you were writing an essay: proper and understandable. Fighunter is one of those websites.
theyclatious
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Tell me what were the punctuation errors because I dont see them...
Blink
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Blink 25 United States CholericMelancholic ENTP 8w7 37C
Your first post would look better if:
Please dont hang me... (you were more clear in this sentence)
Pseudo I was only giving opinion.(space here after a period) It will always be there so ignore it if you dont ap(p)reciate it and use it if it is useful(too many l's). (and here) Ok(ay)?
I was only sug(g)esting reserving a sponsor so you could start geting some more (some and more have near opposite meanings so it sounds funny) revenue sooner! (and here) People dont dislike if it goes against Pseudos liking. (and here) Use your own opinion.
poisen
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Alrighty then. I'm bored so I'll respond. First, your spelling mistakes consist of 'useful', 'suggesting', 'don't' and maybe 'okay' if you want to be picky. Second as I have explained in chat, I seriously doubt that A β Pseudolonewolf would appreciate advice or suggestions (As he has already specifically stated for people not to) coming from a 14 year old boy. And a somewhat known and banned 'troll' at that. I do not mean to come off as aggressive but it's amazing how much tolerance someone must have to deal with this, after specifically stating for people not to provide such advice.
theyclatious
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Im am sorry if I am disturbing anybody but the last sentence in his post,clearly says"I'd be interested to hear what people think, so then I might improve it to make it even clearer."
He asked our opinion and I,gave him my opinion,so I didnt do anything wrong. Didnt do anthing beneficial but just dont hate me,ok?
Random person
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Random person 26 European Union ENTJ 153 252C
Well, actually you did something wrong, although obviously unintentionally. A β Pseudolonewolf was asking for opinions on the new temperaments page, not the game. For future reference, he hardly ever wishes to see any suggestions about making games. So, your post, although meant to be helpful, turned out to be off topic and, as such, was rated down.

I'd like to advise you to read other's posts and consider your own more carefully. You'd also benefit greatly from improving your grammar skills. For starters, use spaces after commas and periods and apostrophes in words like "don't", "can't" etc.
Alt
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Alt 21 Northern Mariana Islands MelancholicSanguine INFJ 4w3 32C
Your bias really shows during the comparison page, especially in the 'Self-Esteem Section'.

Where the melancholic and phlegmatic temperaments are being explained in an analyzed and third-person way; whereas the choleric and sanguine temperaments are instead given a first-person, stereotypical, example of how they have high self-esteem.

While you have obvious reason to not like people of choleric and sanguine temperaments (i.e. the hate mail), I feel like its doing them an injustice to portray them in such an inferior manner.

This is all based on the assumption that people of those temperaments actually take offense to being stereotyped in such a way... I wouldn't know.
Pseudolonewolf
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To suggest that they're great and think so is to portray them in an inferior manner...?

I was using exaggeration to be clear. I've noticed that some people dislike the choleric description because it says things that they don't regard as positive, but I've also noticed that they don't regard them as positive because they don't have those traits themselves. People who DO have those traits do seem to regard them as positive.
It's like how someone might not feel bad about being called mopey and submissive, but a would regard those traits as highly negative-sounding.
ThirdParty
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ThirdParty 34 United States PhlegmaticCholeric INTJ 514 177C
I have in my mix somewhere, and still feel that the description is overly negative.

Your sentence that best summed up my experience as a was "They will 'challenge' others aggressively in order to show their respect for the person's strength." That seems right. 's, more than any other temperament, are concerned with interpersonal respect. They understand that condescension and patronization are terrible insults. Letting someone win a game or argument denies him the opportunity to earn a genuine victory. Coddling someone, or giving unasked-for handouts, denies him the opportunity to be independent and self-reliant.

But most of your description of 's doesn't talk about their willingness to treat people as peers rather than children, and to give people the chance to earn respect. Instead it describes 's as belittling, or at best goading, others--in a word, mean.
Pseudolonewolf
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I asked people before to specifically tell me what was wrong with the choleric description, but everyone in the chatroom at the time said that it was fine and nothing really needed changing after I'd made a few changes. Some of those people were primarily choleric, yet they didn't seem to have issues with it. This all seems to be very subjective! It's rather annoying... since when I ask for suggestions, I don't really get any, but then when I think it's okay to leave it alone, other people find faults somewhere.
I wonder whether your blend massively affects how you feel about the existing description.

All of the raw temperament pages are probably really extreme though, since they're meant only to describe what sets these temperaments apart from others; they paint a caricature rather than a well-rounded 3-dimensional character, because nobody is one of those raw temperaments alone; their other temperament always makes a huge difference and 'softens' or 'cancels out' traits listed there.

Some choleric people ARE condescending bullies who seek to dominate over others rather than wanting them to rise up proudly. I'd say it's a matter of maturity, not temperament, to treat others with respect... though a primary would of course make all the difference in the world there too; is characterised by putting others first, so it does make sense that 'putting others first' along with 'respecting others' strength' would result in getting other people to show that they're strong rather than belittling them to be on top.
Random person
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Random person 26 European Union ENTJ 153 252C
To bring some clarity into the matter: although your description of people is mostly accurate, you seem to portray them as arrogant and aggressive. Which, I dare say, isn't the case.

Being a part person, I can understand why you dislike people of this temperament. people do, indeed, respond well to being challenged, and challenge others frequently. They may also prove to be demanding. Now, although such actions may seem aggressive by their nature, they're hardly ever meant with disrespect. A person is likely to expect others to prove their worth. I'll agree with ThirdParty in that people are ready to accept just about anyone who's capable of earning their respect.

This can be seen as a downside by people who'd rather just be accepted, and it's important for both sides to be understanding towards one another in order to avoid unnecessary conflicts. Naturally, it is primarily the responsibility of a person not to be overly tough and demanding. But still, people may benefit greatly from learning to understand the motives of people.

Aggression and arrogance don't come with the temperament. It's a part of one's personality. A person is not always aggressive, and an aggressive person is not always .

Since the topic was brought up, I'd like to say that the description of seems to contradict itself. It's stated multiple times that they're very unemotional, which is, without doubt, true, but in the pessimist/optimist part of the Comparison section, they're shown as very nervous and timid. Everything below is but an observation, so take it with a grain of salt, but nonetheless...

people are silent and apathetic rather than meek and fearful. They'll, indeed, avoid confrontations because they may see them as meaningless. But if a person does see a confrontation to be necessary, they'll prove to be very persistent. Being highly unemotional and therefore not fearful, they aren't easily stopped, although they'll not be aggressive. They're also not as much submissive as they're loners. On their own, they're disturbed much less than in a company.
Pseudolonewolf
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You're speaking with surprising certainty to me here about something that I've studied for a long time and which I wrote the page about.

is characterised by lack of outwards emotion, and timidity, because it all stems from not being assertive, not being a bother. Temperaments should be understood as being based on this basic 'motive', and any traits are emergent.
Note that I mentioned somewhere about blends that they each have their own flavour, their own traits, like how blue + red makes purple, not 'bluered' or 'redblue' or something like that; I've yet to write about them in detail though.
and are characterised by the apathy that you describe there, but by itself most certainly is not. The apathy and persistence when challenged are the 'purple' that arises from the phlegmatic blue and the choleric red... if that makes sense.

The way you describe seems to be coloured similarly by your particular blend. Aggression and arrogance are 'emergent' choleric traits as they come about naturally through their basic 'motive', which is dominance. This doesn't mean that choleric people cannot control that basic nature though; there's a big difference between actual behaviour and temperament. Indeed, it's the responsibility of people to not be overbearing, but it's controlled behaviour rather than basic nature. Maturity, essentially.
Compare that though with raw nature, whose motive is submission, being out of the way, not being a bother. That does not easily lead to arrogance and aggression, not at all.
So when and are combined, they even out, creating a 'calm and cool' sort of personality rather than a raging or timid one.
Random person
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Random person 26 European Union ENTJ 153 252C
Hmm, point taken. Although I'm not quite sure if people are as submissive as you claim, I can't state it with certainty that they're not, so I'll leave it at that.

Still, some people (myself included) may find your description of the temperament to be somewhat offensive, in a way. It's not exactly pleasant to be referred to as rude, sadistic, inconsiderate and things like that. Yes, I understand that the descriptions are intentionally exaggerated, that it wasn't in your intentions to offend anyone, and that the blends section will contain more specific and accurate descriptions. But perhaps you could word things in a more... Delicate manner?
Pseudolonewolf
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It's interesting that your blend leads you to feel that is tougher than I claim, while is softer than I claim... which makes sense due to the whole 'evening out' sort of thing. It's as if you want to instil with traits (like not being submissive) and vice versa (not being overbearing).

It'd be useful if you'd point out specific sentences that you feel could be changed, since it's easier for me to have a targeted approach like that rather than wondering vaguely about how I could improve the choleric page as a whole.
Random person
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Random person 26 European Union ENTJ 153 252C
Quote:

It's interesting that your blend leads you to feel that is tougher than I claim, while is softer than I claim...

Perhaps... This is also confirmed by my own research data. It doesn't surprise me though that the results of our research are different. I didn't search for articles in English, so I can't provide any links, but it seems that scientists from both USA and Europe and my country of origin find it to be a good tone to disagree with one another.

But more to the point.

Quote:

They may take pleasure in the pain, misfortune, or humiliation of people they are not on good terms with. (Choleric description.)

...and joy when their enemies are humiliated. (Comparison section, emotions part.)

This is pretty much equivalent to calling people evil and cruel. They can be that, but far from always.

Quote:

They blame others for their own mistakes, often to the point of lying to save face.

This seems harsh, and contradicts another statement:
Quote:

They generally believe that they are right, and have immense stubbornness about admitting their flaws, UNLESS admitting these flaws would make them look better than others...

people may find lying to be a sign of weakness, as it means avoiding a direct and honest confrontation.

Quote:

Cholerics are the biggest, toughest, strongest, bestest people around. They're great, they're better than you, they're at the top of the food chain.

I'm confident that I'll succeed. That other guy? Not so much. I'll beat him, that's right. I'm just so great, I can't see how I'll fail. (From the comparison section.)

This portrays people as not only arrogant, but also ignorant and disrespectful. They're confident and proud, without doubt. But I don't think they tend to belittle their opponents.

That should be all... Hopefully it'll help.
scrambledsignal
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From what the others said, the description does seem over the top.

However, my interpretation of some of the temperament pages is more in a way that it describes better a primary rather than a secondary temperament.

The pages certainly serve as a reference to determine a secondary temperament, but with the exaggeration I would rather start with the blends page to determine it.
Since a secondary is possibly equal or milder to a primary, and may contain a subset of a temperament aspects, the examples and descriptions should be finer grained for them.

I don't know if this is a good example:
"I know you can do better than me" is probably is from a melancholic-choleric blend... not the highest self esteem or proudest boast, but yet somehow a challenge to be competent.


(Other thoughts)

I believe each temperament is positive or negative depending on the situation. In deep mess in the wilderness of nowhere, I rather have a primary choleric in the group who can "lead the way" provided they are experienced, have a plan, etc. At home, I'd rather have them "go away" when there's a possibility that I can't stand them and it will lead to unnecessary conflict.

In my opinion, disliking, tolerating, or avoiding a person aren't the same, although its theoretically possible to hate everyone's guts and avoid them. I'd rather avoid everyone if I could regardless if they have similar temperaments, but that wouldn't be feasible. Liking someone can be more complex than its temperaments, although it's possible it's the main reason why.
Alt
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Alt 21 Northern Mariana Islands MelancholicSanguine INFJ 4w3 32C
I wasn't concerned so much about the information being conveyed, but rather the medium in which they were depicted.

You wrote both the melancholic and phlegmatic sections from an observer's viewpoint, but then wrote the choleric and sanguine sections in first person; taking on the personalities of those temperaments when writing about them.

I, for one, prefer the intelligent manner in which the melancholics and phlegmatics were portrayed. Of course, I don't know if this is also true for people of choleric or sanguine dominated temperament blends.
Burnyoureyes
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I imagine hes working hard on Miasmon.
But still no set sate for release. That is just tempting fate.
ecyr666
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When is the next weekly post coming out because there wasn't any on Sunday, Monday or even today Tuesday
Amazia
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Amazia 22 United States MelancholicPhlegmatic ISTP 5w6 51C
Pseudo will make a post when he feels like it... I'm waiting too, but I would rather wait a few days and let him work then he get overly frustrated from time constraints...
ecyr666
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i agree ill let pseudolonewolf get to his work i'm sorry
Dirdle
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The "Why" section fails to convince me. You say (elsewhere) this is not meant scientifically, but are clearly intending it to be used to make predictions about reality (particularly the section of reality called People) - that sounds like any other scientific hypothesis to me, and the question you ask a scientific hypothesis is "what would prove it wrong?" And then you try and find that thing. If no possible observation would convince the advocate of a position otherwise, then that position's truth-value is not merely indeterminable, but completely irrelevant - if any arrangement of sounds causes the same response in my ears, causing me to hold the same beliefs (for instance "I am listening to the famous Moonlight Sonata") then regardless of how pretty that particular piece is, I am deaf.
mmagee
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mmagee 32 Canada CholericSanguine ENFP 297 21C
I usually just come to your site to try and get a feel for when miasmon is coming out but this post piqued my interests.

If you are interested in taking some in depth personality quiz/surveys you should go to ∞ LINK ∞

It was created as part of some research being done by DR. Martin Seligman into "Positive Psychology". Basically, traditional psychology identifies a problem (neurosis) and tries to find a remedy where as "Positive Psychology" tries to find your personal strengths and use those to bolster your weaknesses so that a problem never comes up. There are some really simple test and then there is one that has 240 questions and comes up with a list of 3 or 4 of your strengths and 3 or 4 of your weaknesses.

I came across it in university I think it's worth looking at.

Good luck on the game

Cheers Everyone!
Xmadblood1
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Mr.Pseudo I think you're forgetting something to help with you're money problems. Newgrounds.com A big website with a lot of gamers,artists etc. I'm sure a lot would love to help work on you're game for free and posting mardek 3 and some other games to newgrounds would give you that big boost in money you're looking for. And uh don't let my troubled history here Affect ur judgement
Abbx
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Abbx 22 Pakistan SanguineMelancholic ENFJ 3w4 573C
Hello.

Maybe, Mr. Pseudolonewolf, you could include a personally designed quiz of sorts that would help most undecided people on Fighunter and other places get a clearer idea of what their temperaments are.
Questions could be things like,
"Are you an introvert?"
"What would you do if a friend left you?"
Or something like that.
This could have a separate tab, or be a part of the 'Finding Your Temperaments' tab.
I'm sure that if done, it'd be really popular :)
ghotiboy
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There are tests out there on the internet for that. Just Google "four temperaments test" and you'll get a bunch. A lot of them are kind of lackluster, though, especially since they usually have 4 answers that blatantly correspond to the temperaments.
Abbx
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Abbx 22 Pakistan SanguineMelancholic ENFJ 3w4 573C
I know.
I was hoping for the mighty Pseudo of the Wolves to make a special and more accurate and reliable thing for us. Since he is Lord of the Figs and whatnot!
Pseudolonewolf
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I strongly dislike temperaments tests because they are a very misleading way of looking at the concept. I hear people annoyingly often saying that temperaments don't work, or they don't know their own, because they did a test and got even scores for three or all four temperaments or something. Temperaments don't work in *traits* like that, and to test specifically based on traits is to miss the 'big picture' thing that I tried so hard to stress in what I wrote.

It's so easy to lie, too, or to answer based on what you *want* to be the case, rather than what actually is true.

I couldn't write a temperaments test, and nor would I want to. Most people will be able to pick their temperaments just by reading through the four pages - one or two will stand out above the others to them - and those that struggle with that tend to be opposing blends, which is covered on the 'Finding Your Temperaments' page.
beyoken
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Echoing the sentiments of most of us here: I think it's great that you (Pseudolonewolf) dedicated an entire sub-site to a topic that's close to your heart. I believe it especially helps that you clarify practically everything with examples and analogies to make it accessible to all who read, given that the concept of permanent temperaments is controversial to some extent. The effort you put into deliberate colouring of quotes/examples and the four temperaments definitely pays off well for the reader too.

What probably intrigued me the most was the hate mail section. Clearly the writer of the hate mail put his message across in a manner which offended you rather than helped you. I think a key point is reflected in the last paragraph of your mail: "people who don't like (the concept of temperaments) *could* ignore it". Honestly it's not always easy to ignore things, especially when they strike a wrong chord with oneself - I think you experience that too, with the occasional troll or flamer that drops by your site. As a result, people of hostile temperaments (choleric, melancholic) tend to react to offensive material by expressing their feelings outward: cholerics furiously lambast the source of offense; melancholics burst into bitter criticism. This is evidenced by the hate mail, and your response to it.

Temperaments are permanent, but tolerance isn't, and that's the reason why individuals with contrasting personalities can get along with each other. Unlike the mindless trolls that roam the web, I would say that the writer of the hate mail acknowledges a few of your personal merits (making flash games for one), but more importantly, if he wasn't concerned about you as a person, he would dismiss you as an insignificant being not worthy of his time - his concern gives rise to suggestions on how to understand people. Sure his arguments are flawed, his tone full of sarcasm and cynicism that doesn't help at all, and sure you might not want/need any suggestions. Ultimately though I think it's important to see the bigger picture and where both parties are coming from - whether you accept or reject the contents of the mail is another story.
Pseudolonewolf
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There's a big, big, big, big difference between having something shoved in your face in your own domain - as is the case with the trolls that I must deal with here - and going out of your way to criticise something that you needn't deal with or use at all... One requires that you actually go out of your way; ignoring it would be easier. The other often can't be ignored.
If he doesn't like the temperaments, he can just walk away; they won't affect his life. If I ignored trolls here, the site would fall to ruin or something.

I regarded that horrible email as more of a thing that he did to feel better about himself rather than to help me in any way. Attempting to 'destroy' my idea proved that he was right about it and presumably brought him comfort, allowed him to continue to wallow in the idea that he's Unique and so on. I think it's probable that he 'complimented' me - in that highly patronising manner - in order to Show He Wasn't A Bad Guy, and to achieve the Moral High Ground in doing so. "See, I'm not JUST a vitriol-belching troll; I'm also Being Nice, so if you attack me, YOU are the villain!"

The overall tone did not strike me as an act of good will. It also seemed like a common objection to the idea that I've heard dozens of times before, which is based on ignorance and assumptions.
Abbx
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Abbx 22 Pakistan SanguineMelancholic ENFJ 3w4 573C
I'd really like to get a clear conclusion as to what temperament I am.

I think I can be or . I'd like to make that clear.

Oh, and excellent job with the Temperaments page. It was clear, thorough and an exciting read.