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Pseudolonewolf
4 years ago

DreamQuest, Strict Moderation, and Gamer MBTI!

◊ Posted by A β Pseudolonewolf
Categories: Alora FanePersonalityThe Site
I have three things to talk about today!

First of all, I'm making progress with 'DreamQuest'... which I'm probably likely to rename to something like "Alora Fane: Creation" for various reasons. Probably. Perhaps.

The actual quest-making aspects of it have been 95% done for a long time now, but what I want to do before releasing it is to make and include some quests of my own that tell a hopefully interesting story. There'd probably be six of them, each maybe about 15 minutes long or so, so it wouldn't be some immensely long thing like MARDEK or anything, but that means it wouldn't take as long to make.

I've been trying to write the plot over the last few days, and I've got the basic skeleton sorted out now! I just need to flesh in some details, then get to work on it making quests from it, which shouldn't take all that long... though I'll be getting Pokemon X tomorrow, hopefully, so I'll probably be distracted by that for a while!!

I haven't got anything particularly interesting to say about the game other than that, but when it is released, that's what you'll be able to expect: not just a game-making tool, but also a full story by me set in the Alora Fane world, with a probably similar feel to MARDEK. Sort of.



When that game is releasable, I'll also open up the other site that I've been working on. The one with the four factions and such. I've talked about this many times before, but I really do want to ensure that it ends up being the sort of place that I can enjoy, rather than a place I have to endure or seek escape from.

Moderation on Fig Hunter has always been very lenient, giving troublemakers and pests far too many chances. I always feared some kind of mutiny, since it seemed that everyone jumped to the defence of anyone - no matter how vile they were - the moment a ban was suggested. However, I'm going to be much more strict with this new site. ∞ This thing ∞ is, I think, a good description of what happened to Fig Hunter, as well as a good way of ensuring that it won't happen again.

So that's something to keep in mind. It means that some people won't last a day there, much to the delight of many others.



Finally, I was in a lecture for my Game Art course thing today talking about game design and players and such, and the lecturer guy started talking about MYERS-BRIGGS at length. You can imagine my elation!!1 He went on about how it corresponds to different play style preferences, or 'Bartle types', which are basically the four 'temperaments' (not THOSE temperaments) that the Myers-Briggs types are commonly classed under (Protectors, Creators, Intellectuals, and Visionaries).

These Bartle types use two different dichotomies: 'change' and 'structure', and 'internals' and 'externals'. They are:

Killers - These types correspond to the SP Myers-Briggs types (the yellow ones; ISTP, ESTP, ISFP, ESFP). They are SENSATION-SEEKING and like EXTERNAL CHANGE; basically they want to alter the state of the game world through force. They tend to prefer games that are about visceral sensations, like killing things, blowing stuff up, fighting things, etc. It doesn't necessarily need to be violence (though it usually is); anything that essentially makes them feel like they have power over the game or other entities in the game. A quote:
Quote:
Killers (or, as I prefer to call them, Manipulators) ... can be difficult to understand in a gameplay context because most virtual worlds have encoded rules that marginalize their play style as "griefing" (i.e., upsetting other players) and try to prevent it. As Bartle puts it, "Killers get their kicks from imposing themselves on others." He also points out that Killers "wish only to demonstrate their superiority over fellow humans."

They tend to prefer FPS, action, and Fighting genres, probably.

Achievers - These types correspond to the SJ types (the red ones; ISTJ, ESTJ, ISFJ, ESFJ). They are SECURITY-SEEKING and like EXTERNAL STRUCTURE; they are concerned with things like building stats, getting achievements, gathering resources, either building or hoarding or things like that. Essentially, they like to COLLECT stuff, and build up foundations that give them security. They're actually fond of grinding, which other types might consider an arduous chore.
Quote:
"Achievers regard points-gathering and rising in levels as their main goal" and "Achievers are proud of their formal status in the game's built-in level hierarchy, and of how short a time they took to reach it." Leveling up, leaderboards, and the accumulation of vast quantities of looted items are all behaviors that are driven more by a security-seeking motivation than by other motivations such as powerful sensations, understanding or self-growth.

As such, I imagine they're fond of things like RTS, stat- and loot-heavy RPGs, and perhaps MMORPGs?

Explorers - These types correspond to NT types (the green ones; INTJ, ENTJ, INTP, ENTP). They are KNOWLEDGE-SEEKING and like INTERNAL STRUCTURE; they enjoy things like understanding the world's lore, or might want to try to talk to every NPC they come across in order to have all of the information available.
Quote:
As Bartle describes Explorers: "The real fun comes only from discovery, and making the most complete set of maps in existence." Of the core motivations -- sensation-seeking, security-seeking, knowledge-seeking, and identity-seeking -- exploration as "discovery" is most closely aligned with the Rational's knowledge-seeking preference. For the Rational/Explorer, once the principle behind the data is revealed, that's enough -- understanding is its own reward. These gamers can enjoy imparting knowledge to others, but no extrinsic reward for doing so is needed or expected.

I bet they love the Elder Scrolls games!!1

Socialisers - These types correspond to the NF types (the blue ones; INFJ, ENFJ, INFP, ENFP). They are IDENTITY-SEEKING and like INTERNAL CHANGE; they enjoy plots, social interaction, character growth, etc.
Quote:
Socializers are described by Bartle as "... interested in people, and what they have to say. ... Inter-player relationships are important ... seeing [people] grow as individuals, maturing over time. ... The only ultimately fulfilling thing is ... getting to know people, to understand them, and to form beautiful, lasting relationships."

In the lecture, we each had to mention our FAVOURITE GAME, and while I almost totally said MARDEK (totally), I ended up saying Xenoblade Chronicles. It's not my favourite game ever, but I did enjoy it a lot, and thought I'd have some interesting things to say about it if I was asked. And I was asked! One of the things I said I liked about it was how the innumerable sidequests actually affected the relationships of NPCs, which they did; each town place thing had a bunch of named NPCs, and a special menu thing showed a web of their relationships with eachother, like ∞ this ∞. Doing quests changed these relationships; you might get two people to fall in love, or hate eachother, or maybe one person's respect for another would increase and so on. That was infinitely more satisfying to me than just getting a bunch of loot or experience or whatever (I think you also sometimes got items, but I barely cared about those at all).
And in MARDEK, I included the talk-to-your-allies thing and focused a lot on character and dialogue and so on because, well, they're the most important things to me.

So:
Killers want to beat people;
Achievers want to collect stuff;
Explorers want to learn about stuff;
Socialisers want to learn about people.

OBVIOUSLY we all have many different, overlapping reasons for playing games. Obviously! I know that I enjoy marveling at and exploring fantastical worlds; it's one of the reasons that the aforementioned Xenoblade Chronicles really appealed to me. However, we might find that if a game doesn't have our preferred gaming style thing, then we're not likely to enjoy it very much.
I've played - and to some extent even enjoyed - fighting games before, but I would never count them amongst my favourite games because they lack 'social' elements like a plot or character development. I also hate games like Tetris or Angry Birds because they're devoid of the whole reason that I enjoy games at all. This is something I've always known, though it's interesting how it lines up with personality types like this!

Interestingly, I think games that tend to be liked by the widest variety of people - Zelda games, for example - tend to appeal to all of these four gaming types. Zelda has story, stat-building, combat, and collection, so it caters to everyone... though different people might be enjoying it in different ways. I'm reminded of how I'd always raise an eyebrow at people who talked about loving FFVII, then talking about their party's build and how they'd reached level 99 and so on and so forth, since I would have said I loved it because of the plot. Surely they would have liked the plot too, just as I got at least something out of beating Ruby Weapon, but I suppose our *priorities* were different, leading to us talking about the experience in different terms.

This is all just something to think about, really! It makes me aware of how better to structure my own games, though!
32 Comments

on 22 Roots

32 Comments

Turbotowns2
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"Killers want to beat people;
Achievers want to collect stuff;
Explorers want to learn about stuff;
Socialisers want to learn about people."

I... kinda of fit into all of those. XD
DreamGawd
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DreamGawd 23 Aruba SanguineCholeric INFP 5w6 76C
Same here. It seems like the kind of thing that's meant to attract people in general, but it makes me feel like I have every personality when I fit into all the categories of what I want to do in a game.
Sharramon
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You sound like you're having a much more interesting time and having fun with it~ XD

Hope that learning more about games helps you along the road! Learning about things and having structure put onto things that you only had an intuitive grasp on is a very exhilarating experience isn't it!?

Hope you the best~~~!
FakeKraid
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The Gamer MBTI thing seems accurate for me, anyway. I'm an INTP and I freaking love the Metroid series, and judge quite a few games based on the potential for exploration and discovery, whether literally in the sense of exploring a virtual landscape or figuratively in the sense of discovering mechanics, tricks, strategies, or stories.
Blink
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Blink 24 United States CholericMelancholic ENTP 8w7 37C
In my opinion you should have been banning anyone and everyone that attacked you or tried to drive you away from this site in the first place. You own it, you run it, you can do whatever you want with it.

That aside I'm really excited for any game you release, I haven't been disappointed with any of your games, including the alphas that you abandoned!
AzureEdge
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AzureEdge 23 United States MelancholicPhlegmatic ISFJ 5w6 240C
Oh! Finally, one of my favorite topics: gameplay styles! I can proudly declare that I am an explorer first, an achiever second, and a socializer third.


The Explorer: To Go Where Few Men Have Gone Before!
  Spoiler:


The Achiever: Achievement Get--Ooh Shiny!
  Spoiler:


The Socializer: Tell Me a Story
  Spoiler:
david s
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david s 24 United States MelancholicCholeric ISFJ 621 1192C
Well this definately fits me! I love grinding, building up stats, having 99 of every stackable item, never throwing rare items, or even items of limited quality, away...

Heck, in FPS games like BF3 or Delta Force: Blackhawk Down I was always more focused on my stats on a leaderboard, or in the case of BF3, getting unlocks. I'm also the sort to go bonkers for treasure chests.

I guess my secondary is explorer... I love finding all the secrets of a game!

The one thing I really love, but I don't know where it belongs, is character creation. Like in the beginning of an RPG where you customize the character. I really love that, even if I *always* make the character look like me/what I wish I looked like... or a hot girl... I have to admit I make it a hot girl a lot... but only in single player games, because I'd think it was dishonest to have my character be female in a multiplayer.

But yes! I'm definately the security-oriented grinder. :)
ThinkDeep
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I just wanted to say that I seem to be an Achiever under that classification system, but I hate grinding. That is to say, I will force myself to 100% completion for the sake of achievements, but I seem to have very little interest in going further - levelling up to max level achievements are often the worst for me, if they require grinding after the story is over. I guess I am extremely motivated by a desire, not to be the best necessarily, but for completion of the goals set out for me.

Interesting stuff in this blog post.
PixelTzar
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PixelTzar 26 United States INTP 564 37C
I am of a similar situation. I have times in which I prefer to grind over all else oddly.... so I may for instance grind for 3 days or so before continuing on a quest line for honestly no reason besides it satisfies me. Although when not in the mood, I will do whatever I can to not grind or well… whatever I am trying to get out of.
As for me, I cannot and will not play a game without a plot so that takes a killer out. I am an achiever to a point I guess but if I do not feel an achievement it worth my time for instance I usually will not go after it. I am defiantly an explorer by all means, in real life I will sometimes walk around purely for discovery of the area. I also will sometimes in a game look for every glitch, exploit and so on just to see it and see how it affects the game play. I am a socializer but I usually do not enjoy social interactions for they can have costly reciprocations. So I would be first an explorer then maybe limitedly a socailizer and an achiever.
Omegaile
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I never took Pseudolonewolf as a lesswronger. The fact that he complains about an excess of "thinking types" (as T in Myers-Briggs) makes me surprised he actually reads lesswrong.
ubermola
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ubermola 26 United States INTP 4C
He might have been directed to that article from another source.
ScintillaPurpose
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He was indeed directed there by me, and I was in turn directed there by another member of Fig Hunter. Such is the internet!
Sir Vitor
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It seems I am some sort of explorer-achiever...I like learning everything about a game, but I am also atracted to all badges and trophies I can possibly win in the game.
Best example here:I played Mardek 1,2 and 3 for the first time, and then I did almost everything possible...I heard almost every "dialogue" from the players, crafted almost all items from the Lizards anvil, defeated all bosses and won all cambria tourments.And, although I had a favorite team (Mardek, Gloria, Sharla and Donovan), all other players were well trained, received only the best equipment and trained all skills.I also like to keep in my special vault in game all weapons, armors, helm gears and acessories that can m skills or are rare enough that could be possibly found.
But I think that I am an explorer first.I explored every corners and special dungeons of all games I played.
ubermola
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I wanted to mention the specific incident that caused me to not register on this site until recently. Once, I was a regular lurker, and a stone's throw away from joining the forums. Then Pseudo posted a religious parable that was doubtless intended to stimulate rational discussion. However, the "discussion" in the comments consisted of a very few religious people being assaulted by a very large number of atheists who refused to believe that the religious side of the argument had any weight at all. Although some of the atheists used reasonable arguments, many of them were regurgitating arguments that they had obviously heard somewhere else, but that a cursory checking would have revealed to be false. As a religious person who likes to think of himself as a rationalist, and who spent a very large amount of time analyzing the issue from every angle I could think of, I was greatly saddened by this, and have since come to the site only for the games. As we make a new community, We must remember that the last thing that we want is a location for calm, rational, discussion-as long as you agree with the viewpoint of the majority. As such, I hope that the new site becomes a place where We are judged by the quality of our posts, and not weather we agree with the majority.
(edited to fix typos)
Ribbit
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Ribbit 27 Germany MelancholicCholeric ISTJ 1127C
Can I ask when that was? Just out of curiosity. I don't remember pseudo posting a religious parable anywhere at all.
ubermola
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ubermola 26 United States INTP 4C
Years back. Before the site update that killed all archives. The parable was of a father who did bad things to his children( all of which were biblical references), and then rhetorically asked if the father could be considered anything other than evil. Tte point of my story is not really the philosophical debate, but more the specific example Of the much more general phenomenon mentioned in Pseudo's post. Specifically, the example that turned me off from these forums.
Ribbit
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Ribbit 27 Germany MelancholicCholeric ISTJ 1127C
Ah yes, so it was long before I joined. The ∞ oldfig ∞ still exists though, since you said the archives got killed.
ubermola
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ubermola 26 United States INTP 4C
it does? Thanks for pointing that out. In that case, i was referring to this: ∞ Fig Hunter ∞
Although looking at it again it actually dosent appear to be nearly as bad as i remember. It actualy appears to be mostly rational discussion. Looking back I must have been turned off by two or three "Fools" and misremembered. This is still an good example of the very first stage of the process described in the article(a mostly rational forum with one or two "fools" who degrade the experience.)